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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 15:00:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Falcon now will have less range because it can cloak with zero penalties and warp but more ecm strength at close range because it has no firepower.
It will have less ECM str than now, i think its you who should read the blog tbh.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Rook will now have more range because it can't cloak without penalties but will have less ecm strength cause it has more firepower, plus caldari were crying out for a tech 2 ship that could actually use ****ing drones, they're possibly going to give it a 25m3 dronebay!!!
It will have pitiful ecm str as it is getting a double nerf, one on the ship and the other from the SDA change.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 15:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 25/03/2009 15:56:46
Originally by: Ranger 1
Concerning the Falcon.
Quote:
Summary Falcon changes - ECM Strength Bonus increased from 20 to 25% per level - ECM Optimal Range Bonus removed (52km optimal / 81km falloff w/ 2*SDA IIs) - Increase in general manoeuvrability (might give agility bonus to it to replace the ECM optimal range bonus)
Perhaps you ought to reread that section.
I did, perhaps you should have read this part...
Quote:
Signal Distortion Amplifiers
Currently they increase your ECM strength and we were looking at swapping this to an ECM range bonus.
SDA's currantly give a 20% jam str bonus per module and falcons fit 3 and even with the stacking issues and the falcons 5% jam boost per level it is a overall loss in jam str.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 25/03/2009 16:16:22
Originally by: Ranger 1
I did read it.
1: He was speaking about the ship stats specifically, and in that he was entirely correct.
2: You may be amazed to learn that not all Falcon pilots fit 3 SDA's. Welcome to EVE.
1. Ship stats are effected by regularly used fittings so quotuing them alone is pointless as a referance.
2. Even fitting just 2 SDA's and including the stacking penalty gives a greater gain than 25%. Welcome to basic math.
The changes will give the falcon less jam str at less range than it has now (when standard fittings are taken into account), but yea you can fit a plate maybe in the lows and a eanm+dcu....
Big whoop, the other recons get a gaurenteed effect and nobody uses them in anything close to med sized gang combat any more let alone thinking ppl will be using a system that is already chance based at that range...
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
All falcon pilots I know fit the 1 sda and 1 plate setup to stop themselves getting alpha'd.
That particular setup post possible patch would actually be more effective then it is now at close range with the falcon getting 5% ewar strength per level.
No falcon pilots i know fit less than 2 and most fit 3.
And yea anybody can do the basic math and make claims that ppl fit less str mods making it look like a buff....
Anyway like i said nobody uses the other recons in med sized gang v gang combat or fights even close to that size because of the range problem getting them popped, and the other systems have a gaurenteed effect at that range not one that is chance based even before it gets its str gimped.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 16:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ranger 1
So you are saying that the changes would adversely affect how YOU use a Falcon in your current fitting/play style.
Thats rather the point, isn't it?
Apparently, too many Falcons are being fitted purely for maximum jamming at maximum range.
You make an awful lot of baseless assumption on how the EVE player base should fit this ship. Not everyone fits the Falcon the way you do, but enough are that they are throwing game balance a bit out of whack.
So is that a long winded way of you saying i was right about the str nerf?...good lets move on shall we?.
Originally by: Ranger 1
More fitting options will be opened up and a wider variety of tactics will come into play. This is a good thing. The Falcon will still be a formidable EW platform even with the proposed changes.
Will it be a bit more "at risk" than it currently is?
Yes, especially if you continue to fit in the same old cookie cutter way you currently are. Again, this is not a bad thing.
This is not about ppl wanting to add tactics this is about ppl not wanting to use them to deal with falcons as they are.
And i have eyes and 6 years of eve experiance that tells me that close range recons are NOT used in gang even close to med sized in gang vs gang combat because they just die and cost a lot.
It will not be "at risk" because it will be "not used" just like the rest are not, even in a 2-3 ship gank squad the gaurenteed effects of the other recons will make them a better choice to use just like they are now.
So worthless in gang combat due to range just like the other recons and STILL worthless in 2-3 ship gank squads because its effect cannot be gaurenteed like damps or TD's and webs ect...
I do not need to wait for it to be on sissi to know these things and nor does anybody else with any experiance, but then that exact end result is exactly what the pro nerfits wanted..
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 17:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 25/03/2009 17:46:15
Originally by: Ranger 1
1: You completely missed the point both the original poster and I made about the ECM strength of the Falcon, so if your misunderstanding the statement makes you correct in your book "go for it". 
I misunderstood nothing i added certain facts that were convinently ignored, along with realisic scenarios.
Originally by: Ranger 1
2: I wouldn't attempt to play the "I've been playing this game longer than you, and have more experience" epeen card, as you'd most likely lose on both counts. 
I am less than 3 months away from my 6 years in eve aniversary with around 3k kills in all forms of pvp easily found/provable on modern KB's/BC ect, but a lot more kills on older KB's from the pre battle clinic era....so i highly doubt you are going to be much older as eve was still all shiny when i started playing pal.
Originally by: Ranger 1
You seem fixated on the Falcons role in medium to large scale gang warfare. You might consider that the Falcons role in engagements of this size are very limited even in its current state.
At least it has a role, at least for now, as it is heading for the scrap[ heap along with the others..
Originally by: Ranger 1
1: They are an eggshell, and in larger engagements there is a much higher probability that there will be significant firepower brought to bear on it even at extreme range. One or two Rohks getting a lock on your Falcon at 200km+ is going to ruin your day. There are tactics you can use, yes (decloak, jam, cloak until your jamming cycle finishes) but those same tactics are as effective at 100km as they are at 200km +.
If that is so (and it is not as they cannot operate well at 100km due to falloff along with a lot of other things you missed), but if it is you are saying that the nerf is pointless....
Originally by: Ranger 1
2: In those situations as a general rule a Scorpion was a much more viable selection. The proposed changes to the Scorp may change this, but then we have the tough little Rook to play around with now.
That tough little ROOK you are refering too has a jamming STR right now of 9 using racials when you do not fit SDA's (as they are getting nerfed as well) now include the 25% jam str nerf on top of that and it working in falloff ........so maybe if you are facing a gang of noob ships or T1 frigs you may get a cycle off..
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Al'Htaed
I have a Falcon alt that has maxed jamming, falcon skills and I support this change fully.
The range on Falcon was ridiculous. I was perma jamming anything at 240km with no fear of ever getting killed.
Can we has cheezz oops no i mean.. linkage to a KB with proofs or a name to check on BC pls...
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.26 10:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: 4 LOM
Originally by: GTC seller72
And i have eyes and 6 years of eve experiance that tells me that close range recons are NOT used in gang even close to med sized in gang vs gang combat because they just die and cost a lot.
I would love to see this 6 years of experiance with recon ships in eve... very impressive that you got to play wtih them long before they were introduced.
Did i say in recon ships or did i say 6 years experiance in eve?.
If all you can do is snip, reinterpret and troll maybe you should go back to caod.
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GTC seller72
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: GTC seller72 on 26/03/2009 12:32:01
Originally by: Azirapheal
its irrelevant because of the way you keep going on. post with your damn main and prove your 6 years experience. ive got 3 years experience of killing people. and have taken up mission running in my spare time while i wait for every "customer" to not have a falcon alt to completely **** the game up.
if its used by everyone. its a no-brainer choice
no brainer choices get nerfed.
Interesting logic....kill anything off that works.
Everybody uses dmg dealers, everybody uses mwd's and most gangs have a lot of webs and points........are they next by your logic?.
The other recons are so poor because of their available range that nobody really uses them in gang v gang combat and ppl like you wanna reduce the falcon to the same uselessness.
At least the other recons can be used in solo or small 2-3 man gank teams effectivly even with reduced range because of their gaurenteed effect being relyable enough to plan tactics around. The falcon at close range is still chance based meaning it is not relyable enough to do so.
Along with that you have the fact that TD's, damps ect are regularly fitted on non-bonused gank/tank ships to great effect in gang combat also due to their relyable effect even without a bonus from a ship.
This nerf has the effect of making ECM and the recons that use them obsolite for any kind of combat, when instead CCP should be giving ECCM a boost and a secondary effect, they should also give the other recons a range bonus to some of their effects and maybe even give SDA's the ability to effect some of the other ewar systems.....THAT WOULD BE A BALANCING.
What they are doing is not a "fix" or a "balancing" it is a utter nerfing and effective removal of a entire ship and module from any reasonable and effective use in actual pvp on TQ.
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